Interview Transcription, Part 2

I: When did they start binding girls' feet?

S: From 4, 5, years old, back then.

I: How?

S: Use this rough woven cloth, stretch the cloth till it’s 3 (che? Less than meters but longer than feet) long. Stretch the cloth to bind feet. When they inspected girls’ feet, I was four or five.

I: Who inspected girls’ feet?

S: It was a leader. Unbind feet...when liberated, they told us to unbind women’s feet, and enforced it, [the state] told [the regional leaders] them to inspect feet. When I was 5 or something, when they came to inspect our feet, immediately took off the bindings and quickly put on…back then no one wore Western-style socks, but when they came to inspect feet we immediately had to wear Western-style socks, so inspectors saw we were wearing Western socks. When the inspector left, they bound your feet again.

I: Were you ever angry with your mother?

S: Of course, but back then society was in that state, it was all like this. Girls all had to bind their feet. After your feet were bound, your feet burned. At night when you slept, you have to stick your feet outside of the covers, burning pain. It just was like that. Just women had to have bound feet. Then, when you get married, they first look at your feet, they don’t look at your face, first look at whether your feet are large or small, the smaller the better. “A pair of small feet overcomes the entire body,” it was said. It was just like that. Women were not considered people. “Noodles are not considered food, women are not considered people.” If someone came to your house and asked you, “anyone home!” “no one!” The women were not people. They were not considered people. You see how unequal the value placed on women and men was? Now people say men and women are equal. Back then your grandfather said, women occupy the lowest level. Weren’t they the lowest level? (pause)

I: In your house aside from your uncle, sister, and mother, was there anyone else?

S: My two uncles. My father was older, the eldest, my father passed away, back then passed away early. Before he died there were three brothers. Afterwards they split the home. My mother, I didn’t have a father then, my mother and I were given this building. It was an empty courtyard. My third uncle was given this court, and my uncle was given this other court. My mother received this building, and had to…only after it flooded did she move into a taller building. When it flooded, there was that building, the flood made the walls collapse. My mother alone looked after my sister and I, later my second uncle built a house for us, later after the Liberation they lived there, said they were landlords.

I: Why were they called landlords?

S: If you had more land, that no one could plant, you would ask other people to help plant, if you ask other people, you become a landlord.

I: How much land?

S: It doesn’t matter how much land, as long as you hire people, then you’re a landlord. If you work on the land yourself, you are a farmer. If you don’t work yourself and hire people, you’re a landlord. Back then, to brand people as landlords was after Chairman Mao came, then people were branded as landlords.

I: That was…the 1940s?

S: I think so. After I’ve already married, I was already 16, 17 when I married. Your grandfather was only…14. He was three years younger.

I: You married when he was that young?

S: He was 14, I was 17. Then people were particular about this. “If the woman is three years older, riches will come.”

I: What does that mean?

S: It’s good! If the woman is older by three years, riches will come.

I: What does the saying mean?

S: Just that you’ll have fortune and riches.

I: Why does the woman have to be older?

S: Then women were older. But “If a woman is older by 5 years, your lives shall be bitter.” Then people were particular about being 3 years older.

I: You were three years older?

S: I was three years older. Your great-aunt in Zhengzhou, she was also older, their ages were all separated by three years. Later people weren’t so particular. Back then, the matchmaker who evaluates women, they first look at your feet, not your face, not how you look, nor do they talk about education. Back then my grandfathers all sent the boys to school, but not the girls.

I: Then you wanted to go to school, but they wouldn’t let you?

S: All didn’t go to school. Women couldn’t go to school. Only boys went.

I: Did you ever ask?

S: Then…no, I didn’t really, I only wanted to go to school later. Later after the Liberation, I went to night school, school for farmers, went for a few years. When your grandfather was in Beijing, I could even write letters to him. I lost it all when I went to Xinjiang. You can’t remember things you learn halfway through life. Then I could even read the newspaper. Back then you always had a book, novels, after I went to Xinjiang I never had time, I had to cook and look after children, I never studied again and forgot everything. Now there are books at home, but I can’t read the words anymore, I don’t know any of the words. You can’t learn things halfway through life, you must learn starting from elementary school so you won’t forget. I remember everything from when I was little. Now, learned things from halfway in life, studied for a few years, went to night school, studied, studied for a few years, 2, 3, years maybe? 2 years? I even knew how to write letters. Now I’ve forgotten everything. After going to Xinjiang I never read again. After being alive for a lifetime, I said, back then women were too oppressed. “Noodles are not considered food, women are not considered people.” Then what were they considered? Even you can’t consider yourself as a person. When people ask, anyone at home? No one! Even in your answer, you are not considered a person.

I: What do you do on a typical day at home?

S: What do I do? I told you, embroidery, weaving cloth, making clothes, there’s always work to do. House work during the day, and needlework by moonlight at night. You know, needlework, weaving…you see, your grandmother is not a stupid person, weaving cloth, it was flowery cloth. I used to weave cloth that required four feet to weave, weaving flowers, I knew how to weave every type of cloth. You pedal on the machine like this, for slanted patterns you have to slap the paddle. For flowers (cherry blossoms?), you have to tap the machine.

I: You use your feet to pedal?

S: Use your feet, and your hands are responsible for the machine on top.

I: Do you sell the cloth, or do you wear it yourself?

S: At that time, when you get married, your mother-in-law gives you three kilograms (jin?) of cotton, and tells you to earn money for what you wear.

I: What do you mean?

S: She tells you to weave the cotton into cloth and sell it! If you sell more, you earn more, for your own clothes. You see how much work it was for me in this lifetime? You sell the cloth you wove, then weigh the cotton that you buy, if you earn more you’ll have more to make clothes with.

I: What do you use to make clothes to wear?

S: After you sell the cloth, when you get married, with your mother-in-law, she distributes it, she gives you three kilograms of cotton, you weave the cloth, sell it, and buy more to weave with. It was like that. Later it was better. You plant the cotton yourself, harvest the cotton yourself. Your aunt, when your aunt was born, I was picking cotton all afternoon and I came home to cook, after I finished cooking I said, you all eat, and then I had your aunt. I did work all my life, wove for your great grandmother, for my mother-in-law, I dyed cloth. Then it was all black dye, and I used the cloth to make a winter jacket. When I had your uncle, I also dyed the cloth black and made a winter coat for him, you made everything yourself. Make thread, weave cloth, and make into clothes, after that you can wear it.